Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Back to Metrics

One more reason why not to compare ARR and IR is the sheer style of working. IR works on spontaneuity and ARR works on improvisation.

Look at some metrics here on number of movies that Rahman did by year:

Let me now overlap the Raaja's metrics against this:

That means a world of difference in them. That's why I call them apple and oranges.


முருகேஷ் said...

Thanks Emjay for the statistics. To me, it looks like a comparison between a giant and a dwarf..lol. It's very clear that ARR is no match to Raaja. I think , in future we should not make any comparative study between Raaja and ARR.

Suresh said...

I am not sure if I would call "Spontaneous" VS "Improvisation".

Probably "Spontaneous" vs "Haarrddwwoorrkk"

Prabhu R Shankar said...

hard work is something both of them did and thats why they are two entities that we discuss at different eras..
to me, it simply looks like the agenda on which both of them work are totally different..
Emjay, i would like to see you work on one more statistics if possible,
the number of competitors both worked with at their times and number of hits delivered.. out of the number of movies made..
not to take away any credit from IR's achievements, even if there were 30 movies released in a year, how many of them were considered super hits? try to derive a percentage of this and may be we can conclude on something.

Suresh said...

Well, I got to probably give meanings to the words I said.

When I talk Hardwork in this context, I am talking about HARDWORK TO COMPOSE AN ALBUM. It is a known fact that IR smashes albums in a jetspeed. That is something I called Spontaneous and not something which is hardworked. That is probably the reason lot of people acknowledge him as a GENIUS. My synonymns to GENIUS would be extraordinary creative power/talent combined with a natural flow. I dont think we heard IR beating on something and trying to fetch something out. It is all instantaneous like a volcano erupt.

ARR probably puts in a lot of hours on his deliverables. So, that is something I am calling HARDWORK.

Prabhu R Shankar said...

well, i totally agree that IR's music has been more of spontaneous and thats one reason why so many albums in shorter period, but to think beyond that concept, do u think music can be composed without a spontaneous reaction to a given situation? i mean, is it possible to sit long hours considering it hard work and come up with a composition?
to me, its always spontaneous, and only spontaneous creations have the ability to touch a chord with the listeners.. its impossible to sit sit and sit over a thought and compose music out of the thought i opine..

Sandhya Ramachandran said...

Dear all,

In a very absurd way, we tend to compare two different people even when we outwardly keep telling that we are not comparing. As a neutral music lover, I would like to add on this subject of comparison. Rahman exists today because he is different from others, if he composed music the same way IR did the he would be called IR instead of ARR. It is like asking whether Rama is great or Krishna; both these God were God from different era. They preached and practiced philosophies relevant to that era. In that aspect, I think both IR and ARR are giving to people what they want and enjoying what they are doing as professionals. And I think it would be great on our part to just enjoy their music.

முருகேஷ் said...

It's like Rama (IR) Vs Vaamana (ARR). Both are only avatars but still....

Emjay said...


I really liked your comment. Good imagination.


"Taking time to compose music" is his style and every person and their style. I would like to leave it at that. Whether that appeals to you & me or not is individual's preference.


Comparing # of competitors might not help us. Anyone who has a keyboard can score music today. So, there are plethora of "so-called-music-directors". Even in that paradigm, Raaja ruled in such a way that he literally built a forte that no one could dare to break.

Also, what is a hit to me might not be to you. Have you heard "Oru Kaaviyam Arangerum Neram" song from Aruvadai Naal. In my mind, that is the best song Raaja has ever sung and divine!! How many would accept that with me?

If we were to take commercial yardsticks, Kuselan CDs sold more than Shivaji and more than ANY OTHER Raaja's album (in his 3 decade). Does that mean, GVP outscored Raaja?

Very difficult to compare and prove a point. To me, Raaja is the best and to some it may be Rahman and to some it may be S.D.Burman.

முருகேஷ் said...

I used to play "oru kaaviyam" song repeatedly during my school days. It's my favorite too.

His voice and Tabela produces an intimate feeling in that song.

Suresh said...

Songs like "Oru Kaavviyam" are more than masterpieces. Those kinds really really touch the soul and I have felt that repeatedly. And as Mohan said, certainly songs are privy to you and only you can enjoy the feel when you get it. Tough to sell at times! I do not know who the producer or director of that song is? But, I feel he/she should have shut his mouth and come back home with that song. After all, he got a steal! My feel is no director/producer could have explained a situation to get this kind of song out from Raja. It just comes out of our man!

Prakash Srinivasan said...

I have said this before, IR is like Don Bradman & ARR is like Sachin, both legends having their respective places (Bradman is all time best). Thats it for me!

Vinith said...

"Anyone who has a keyboard can score music today." - Exactly the words of IR in an interview. Did you know this Emjay? :)

I love both ARR and IR. But when it comes to my favorite, i can't give up IR.
To my knowledge, He is the man who "created" music. After ARR came, we got software, commercial loops, synthesiser etc. But i gues we never had these facilities in IR period. So the originality of the music remained unaffected. Originality is certailny missing in this generation songs. Synthesiser does everytihng nowadays. MDs dont have to think ou-of-box to write notes for music. But IR did this. Thats why i said he "creates" music :)

Pls correct me if i wrong! :)

Anonymous said...

emjay u dont need to search for these metrics to prove raja's caliber..

jus three simple points enuf IMHO

Ramarajanakkku Kooda Western Music Podalaamnu Prove Pannathu One and Only Raja...(Nethu Oruthara Paathom)

Jus imagine rahman with ramarajan rahman muzhi pidhingi povaapla...

2.Raakama Song....10 Varusham Rahman WCM Ukkanthu Padichallum he cant come up with this kinda orchestration...

3.As said evryone rahman goes between ears unlike raja goes into ears and reaches the soul..tats raja(FYI Am a hardcore Rahman fan till 2007)

Vinith said...

Check out my blog where my post is about rakkamma!


I specifically chose this song for which i have given reason ther!
Best song!

New kenny on de block ;) said...

Come on arr should be apple as he uses apple software alot...{jus kidding}


Oh, Haarrddwwoorrkk means adopting msv's or any old classical from unknown language tunes, later choose for apt pre-set rhythm or pre-recorded loops, which was programmed by some x-programmer. Later, multi-layer synth chord-progression would be programmed by pravin mani, ranjit barot, joshua sridhar or harris. H.sridhar does amazing sound engg. Thank you for letting me to know de meaning of Haarrddwwoorrkk {jus kidding}.

Both de composers did inspire from classical work. As far as I know Raaja sir 25+/4500 and Rahman - 100/450. Does this make any sense?

New kenny on de block ;) said...

I too a fan of Rahman. His presentation and sounds are damn good and not w.r.to creativity, jus cut and paste work. He is simply using pre-recorded loops, which are created by some x-programmer. He does not create any own loops for his work eh?, only additional program he does tat too his assistants doing and recently he got some pluggin from hyderabad wherein you get loops for Rs.1000 {frown}. Did ya'll listen to beats Sil Sil from arindhum ariyamalum and Barse Re from Guru??? Beats of Poove Poove - Poovellam Kettupar and Roja Roja from kadalar dinam??? Beats of Anbe Anbe from Mugavari and Nenjil from Kannathil muthammittal? Each pair of songs have same beat/rhythm arrangement. Bottomline, Rahman did not copy those beats and programmed ‘em for his songs. He has used the same pre-recorded loops wut other composers had used. That’s it…He did not compose any rhythm for his songs…However, Raaja sir will compose his own ludes (pre, inter and post) or BGM for his songs. Bout Raaja sir usage of instruments, you can find some many idioms of Call and response, rhythmic understructure, improvisations, blue notes, polyrhythms, syncopation, Capriccio of string orchestra, swung note, harmony, cantabile, counterpoint or counter-melody, polymeter, tight rhythm section, pizzicato through string orchestra, popping and slapping through bass guitar allegro, prestissimo, presto, cavatina, coda, accelerando, parody, impromptu, canon, cadenza, castrato, cantata and many moreeeeeeeee and I need my full birth to explain his usage of orchestra…However, Rahman jus use multi-layer stuff, additional program toppin on beats n many ingredient wid awesome sound effect, tats it. So he is great music arranger and sound-engineer.

New kenny on de block ;) said...

SwarShala is a carnatic software, which has pre-recorded sounds of indian classical instruments with different thalas with proper precision. It is being used by Arr.

Raaja sir took 23 hours to compose and record all the songs for the movie "Uliyin osai". BTW, it has three classical songs, two semi-classical songs and a couple of folk songs. Recently, I read a percussionist's article who played mirudhangam for uliyin osai, he explained de application of sruthi betham at one of the classical numbers.

Raaja sir should have used SwarShala s/w instead of live instruments. Why he did not attempt it? BTW, karthickraja did also buy this s/w. Come on, Output of uliyin osai is called composer's breath. I am just inhaling it {it is supposed to be oxygen for me}, instead of listen to it.


~~Raaja rules!

Vinith said...

Good info Kenny. Now i have got better understading in commercial loops.

Is this why munbe-va beats look very similar to a song in a private tamil album. I dont know the album/composer name. But it was very often played in SS musc 3 years ago. Does any one know the song am talking about?
I remember a smal piece of its lyrics. It goes like this "nan solvadha, idhai nee than arivadha, oru kadhal kaditham ezhuthi"....
can someone shed light on this?

Emjay said...

Thanks for the info, Kenny. I heard in an interview of Raaja. He said "The difference between this syth./computer music and manual orchestra is like difference between fast food and the food we get from our mother!"

To be honest, I am just tired of this loops and synth. sounds. They don't appeal me at all..

Arun said...

Simple charts but powerful.

Thanks for sharing.